OTBB’s Important and Serious HOF Chat 2018
Max [11:17 AM]
Hello!
To review, we will go through each player listed on the ballot and collectively decide whether or not they deserve a spot on our final Official OTTB ballot, which will include up to but not exceeding 10 players.
Max [11:34 AM]
There are 35 players on this year’s ballot
Jason Weitzman [11:35 AM]
Or we collectively decide to mail in a protest ballot
Max [11:50 AM]
We could. Might be a boring post if we do though….
Jason Weitzman [11:58 AM]
oh yeah let’s def not do that
is everyone aware that this is at noon Eastern Time
Max [11:59 AM]
I think so. I’ll check with the third participant
Third participant, have you arrived?
Sean [12:01 PM]
I had a minor emergency in my home (I started a fire in the fireplace without first opening the flue). I have still arrived on time. I would like it to be known that I take this very seriously
Jason Weitzman [12:01 PM]
I’ve started a bunch of fires before
Max [12:01 PM]
Well this is very serious business. OTBB needs an official ballot
Jason Weitzman [12:01 PM]
one time I started a kitchen fire and I stopped it by throwing water on it, which they say not to do but it worked
Max [12:02 PM]
#LifeHack
Sean [12:02 PM]
Last year we voted for Bonds, Clemens, Guerrero, C Jones, A Jones, Martinez, Rolen, Sheffield, Thome, Walker
Jason Weitzman [12:02 PM]
how do you get to be on the official ballot? just ask ken rosenthal?
all of whom have mysteriously gone missing…
Max [12:03 PM]
That’s pretty good. We matched up well with the people that actually got in.
Jason Weitzman [12:03 PM]
then gave scott rolen a vote because he’s friends with chipper jones
side note: i always thought they were friends because they both played third base
they probably have never spoken to each other
Max [12:04 PM]
Should we get started on the massive list of names we need to whittle down this year?
Jason Weitzman [12:04 PM]
yah!
Max [12:05 PM]
Sean, who’s first?
Sean [12:05 PM]
For those who don’t remember why we’re here. The basic idea is to pretend that we have a ballot and semi-seriously consider each of the candidates before landing on the maximum of 10 players who we agree deserve induction to the HOF. It’s self-described as “circular logic, silly digressions, and sabermetric bumbling.” We’ve done it more than once. Maybe thrice.
The first player on this year’s ballot is Rick Ankiel
Max [12:06 PM]
We’ve done it a lot. It’s one of my favorite OTBB traditions.
Jason Weitzman [12:06 PM]
a two way player! that’s pretty impressive
Max [12:06 PM]
Rick Ankiel. He definitely gets points for 2 way playing
But enough points?
Jason Weitzman [12:06 PM]
plus he’s been in the playoffs
Sean [12:07 PM]
He also gets negative lots of points for confirmed steroid use.
Max [12:07 PM]
Really? I don’t remember that
Jason Weitzman [12:07 PM]
oh [can i swear]
Sean [12:07 PM]
Swear like you’re on cable. Not HBO
Jason Weitzman [12:07 PM]
oh darnit!
Max [12:08 PM]
So I don’t think Ankiel gets in. Not on a ballot with this many good player. Not on any ballot because he’s not that good.
Honor to be listed though, good for him
Sean [12:09 PM]
Yeah – on his way back as a hitter, he got busted for HGH. It gives us a chance to make our steroid arguments very early. I don’t feel properly warmed up for the steroid arguments, though.
Jason Weitzman [12:09 PM]
i really like the tony la russa/jerry resindorf [sic?] for harold baines “but he’s my friend” clause
Max [12:09 PM]
Let’s get to Baines later too. I have thoughts
Sean [12:09 PM]
Is Jason Bay your close friend?
Max [12:09 PM]
Same name, maybe?
Jason Weitzman [12:10 PM]
us jasons stick together
Max [12:10 PM]
Give me some stats on Jason Bay
Jason Weitzman [12:10 PM]
number 44
isn’t JD Drew
Max [12:11 PM]
Not sure those are stats
Jason Weitzman [12:11 PM]
bi coastal (mets and mariners)
ummmm
his era is ####
Max [12:11 PM]
So he’s doesn’t have the Rick Ankiel thing going for him.
Jason Weitzman [12:12 PM]
also im embarrassed to admit i just figured out jason bay was on the ballot
Max [12:12 PM]
There’s a lot of randos on this years ballot
Sean [12:13 PM]
He’s best remembered for being a bad Mets player and a good Red Sox. And he’s Canadian. Is he the best Canadian player?
Max [12:13 PM]
Larry Walker would strongly object
Jason Weitzman [12:13 PM]
joey votto!
Walker is clearrrrrrllly on steroids
just watch any video of him playing
Max [12:14 PM]
Walker isn’t until the W’s
Jason Weitzman [12:14 PM]
they just don’t like people
yes we’ll get to it in like the third quarter of the pats game
Sean [12:14 PM]
What if we had a Hall of Fame, but the rules were that you could have only one player from a given country. Do you think this would cause the downfall of the United States?
Jason Weitzman [12:14 PM]
*they just don’t look like people [when they’re on steroids]
like a UN Hall of Fame
Max [12:14 PM]
We’d probably just pick Trout and everyone would just be fine with it
Jason Weitzman [12:15 PM]
I like this
Sean [12:15 PM]
Babe Ruth
Jason Weitzman [12:15 PM]
Xander Boagerts Representing Aruba!
Max [12:15 PM]
Ichiro!
Jason Weitzman [12:15 PM]
ichiro!!!!!!
whoever is the cuban representative also most likely is not allowed in their homeland
Max [12:15 PM]
Shin Soo Choo!
Max Kepler!
Jason Weitzman [12:16 PM]
Chin Mang Wang! i think he was from Thailand?!
Rod Carew was born in Panama!
Max [12:16 PM]
Taipei
Jason Weitzman [12:16 PM]
but the US part
dammit
Max [12:16 PM]
So was Rivera…..
Jason Weitzman [12:16 PM]
I was born in New York city!
Sean [12:17 PM]
…and Back to the real Hall of Fame. Lance Berkman is next, and I think he has a way better resume than only 2 people voting for him so far
Jason Weitzman [12:17 PM]
yah
yah
lance barman would go on my “I’m thinking about it”
Max [12:17 PM]
So, I’m a ‘yes’ on Berkman being on our final ballot
Sean [12:18 PM]
Quick rundown on why: He hit ..293/.406/.537. Switch hitter. 6x all star, 7x got MVP votes. That’s pretty good.
Jason Weitzman [12:18 PM]
that weird video commercial does give him minus. 75 points
Max [12:19 PM]
Equal member of the Killer B’s
the other two members of which are already in the Hall….
Jason Weitzman [12:19 PM]
he was really good
Sean [12:20 PM]
He also kinda always looked stoned to me. Bonus points for maintaining dad body and putting up those numbers
Max [12:20 PM]
Baseballs’ the best for that
So why’s he only have 2 votes so far that we know about?
Jason Weitzman [12:20 PM]
hahaha it’s like the bartolo colon of the base paths
Sean [12:21 PM]
Because of this stupid rule that we can only vote for 10 people. Barry Bonds is up next.
Max [12:21 PM]
I am a steadfast ‘Yes’ on Barry Bonds
Jason Weitzman [12:21 PM]
I say yes for berkman for now but if it’s more than 10 he’d go off the ballot early
Max [12:21 PM]
I will die on this hill
Jason Weitzman [12:22 PM]
I say no for bonds and max disagrees with me!
Max [12:22 PM]
Correct
Jason Weitzman [12:22 PM]
yes
Sean [12:22 PM]
We’ve always voted for Bonds. Why does Jason say no?
Jason Weitzman [12:22 PM]
cleaaaaarly steroids, I’m a big don’t let the steroids people in the hall, although i respect everyone’s opinion and see why people would say put him in!
take out piazza and Ivan Rodriguez!
and ty cobb, f*** that guy!
yah I have a lot of controversial opinions I’m gonna get out in this chat
I have a curt schilling theory that I’ve had for YEARS that i have never shared with anyone that i cannot wait to tell once we get to the S’s
I see “Max and Sean” are typing
Max [12:24 PM]
For me, it basically comes down to the fact that you can’t have a reputable baseball museum without arguably the best baseball player ever
Sean [12:24 PM]
I don’t really feel strongly one way or the other, and I don’t really like Bonds. But he WAS baseball for awhile.
Jason Weitzman [12:24 PM]
that is very true
what sean said, i didnt read max’s yet
i read up
trueeee
Sean [12:25 PM]
So he’s onto round 2. In the cache if you will
Jason Weitzman [12:25 PM]
my compromise would be you have to mention it on the plaque
hahaha
i can never find my cache files
Max [12:25 PM]
Agree with Sean. We voted for him before and there’s no reason to change now
Jason Weitzman [12:25 PM]
say like “he hit 73 home runs in the steroid era”
then i would say it’s ok
Max [12:26 PM]
Sure, whatever. But he has to be in
and the speech would be awesome
Jason Weitzman [12:26 PM]
which he obviously would wholeheartedly agree to
yeah he’s cool!
Sean [12:26 PM]
Same story with Clemens. But I also think that Clemens deserves like one fewer vote than Bonds because he wasn’t as good. OTBB can be that one vote.
Max [12:26 PM]
Ha
Jason Weitzman [12:26 PM]
woah they’re next to each other alphabetically!
Max [12:27 PM]
Yeah, its really annoying. No breather
Jason Weitzman [12:27 PM]
kinda like how hank aaron was the first alphabetical baseball player up until fuckin DAVID AARDSMA
hahahah
Max [12:27 PM]
I don’t really like Clemons as a person, but I can’t find a reason to support Bonds but not him
Aardsma is going to be tough to beat
Jason Weitzman [12:28 PM]
idk the padres have a really promising prospect Yuniesky Aaaaaardsma
yah i agree, also the whole “i will only pitch at home and play for three months” was underratedly pretty cool
im a big worker’s rights guys into the hall of fame
Max [12:29 PM]
And very annoying. That guy got more money for less work…
Jason Weitzman [12:29 PM]
i will give up my lance berkman vote for marvin miller
Max [12:29 PM]
So Rocket is on to round 2, begrudgingly, again. Who’s next?
Jason Weitzman [12:29 PM]
freddy garcia?
are you guys also on the baseball reference page?
ohhhhhh yeahhhhhh solid 8th-round fantasy baseball draft choice freddy garcia
Max [12:30 PM]
Garica is next? Did we lose Sean?
Sean [12:31 PM]
The OTBB archive for Freddy Garcia is wild. Here’s a mention of him in a post about why I liked the Braves signing Gavin Floyd
Off The BenchOff The Bench
Why I Like The Gavin Floyd Signing
The Atlanta Braves are expected to announce today that they’ve agreed to terms with free agent starter Gavin Floyd. It’s reported to be a one-year deal with a base salary of $4 Million. At first glance, this is not the type of “Ace” addition that the Braves needed in the offseason following a playoff loss […]
Dec 16th, 2013
Jason Weitzman [12:31 PM]
im looking at his stats, and there are three black ink [that means led the league] stats, one is ERA and IP in 2001, the other is 20 Wild Pitches in 2005
nice cross promotion!
Max [12:32 PM]
Ha. How’d that Gavin Floyd signing work out?
Sean [12:32 PM]
Here’s another one. He finished second in a stat that I made up! “That Freddy Garcia finished second is counterintutive at first. Then, one looks at how he fared in his few starts with the Braves this year and we realize his placement is another of the Small Sample Size champions.”
Off The BenchOff The Bench
Quantifying Pitcher Offense: Introducing True Total Bases
Max and I have a theory: offensive contributions from pitchers go wholly unappreciated by both the sabermetric community and old school managers alike. When watching Braves games, one could often catch the microphone next to the dugout picking up the great manager Bobby Cox yelling out to his pitchers to “take it EASY!!!” as they […]
Oct 23rd, 2013
Lance Berkman led the league 3 times….
Max [12:33 PM]
As OTBB approaches it’s 9th birthday, our archive is really becoming a treasure trove…
Sean [12:33 PM]
Is Freddy Garcia a Hall of Famer?
Jason Weitzman [12:33 PM]
he is second in something!
Max [12:34 PM]
I don’t think he is sadly. The first three years of his career were great! It’s the last 12 that give me pause
Jason Weitzman [12:34 PM]
maybe if he throws us some cash id put him on though….
Max [12:34 PM]
For sure. I can be bought
Sean [12:34 PM]
He had a 1.65 ERA for the Braves.
Max [12:35 PM]
27.1 innings….
Sean [12:35 PM]
He’s decidedly in the Baines bucket
Jason Weitzman [12:35 PM]
if it’s a pitchers park then you have to adjust and it would probably be like a 45.83 ERA
Sean [12:35 PM]
Can we put him in the Baines bucket?
Jason Weitzman [12:35 PM]
The Baines Bucket!
Max [12:35 PM]
Baines was better
Jason Weitzman [12:35 PM]
the Baines bucket should def be a real bucket just outside the hall of fame
and anybody who you thought was ok you can put their baseball card in there
Max [12:36 PM]
I love that idea. We need it
I’m going to take this opportunity to make an announcement.
I believe that the Harold Baines Hall of Fame induction is, besides being absolutely ridiculous, a huge blessing to people like us. It is now clear that to determine whether or not a player is a HOFer, all you need to do is decide if they are better than Baines. Therefore, I will be advocating during this entire chat for any player that I think is equal to or greater than Harold Baines. Berkman? Yup? Hafner? Sure? Jeff Kent? Hell yes.
Jason Weitzman [12:38 PM]
he’s like a Replacement Level Hall of Famer
Sean [12:39 PM]
So the Baines Barometer?
I way prefer the Baines Bucket
Jason Weitzman [12:39 PM]
WHERE’S THE BAINES BAROMETER? I LEFT IT IN THE BAINES BUCKET!
Max [12:39 PM]
Also, if any of the readers of this blog would like a custom designed Harold Baines HOF shirsey, please reach out to me at max@offthebenchbaseball.com. I will be printing them up if I receive 12 orders or more so please shoot an email my way and I’ll send you a high quality mockup I made.
Jason Weitzman [12:40 PM]
wait is a barometer like a real thing? like a thermometer? or just a hypothetical ideal? ive never thought of this
the shirseys are cool! ive seen them!
Max [12:40 PM]
barometers measure barometric pressure, i think
Sean [12:40 PM]
The Baines Barometer could be used to pressure people
Jason Weitzman [12:41 PM]
Hahah oh yeah if he was like in a cop show
Max [12:41 PM]
Just wack them in the head with a Baines Barometer
Max [12:41 PM]
how is Jon Garland on the ballot?
Jason Weitzman [12:41 PM]
there’s a white sox conspiracy
do you have to declare for the hall of fame like declaring for the NFL draft
Max [12:42 PM]
Jerry Reihnsdorf (sp) is powerful
Jason Weitzman [12:42 PM]
or do they just realize you haven’t played for a while
Risendorf [sic] is like the wizard of oz
Max [12:42 PM]
Someone has to pick you. No clue who though. Or what method they use
Jason Weitzman [12:42 PM]
the actual wizard
Max [12:43 PM]
It’s questionable
Jason Weitzman [12:43 PM]
hmmm
it would be fun if it was more reality show-like
Jason Weitzman [12:47 PM]
yikkkkkkkesssss 24.8 career war? that’s like 3 bad mike trout seasons
Sean [12:47 PM]
*Max has been kicked out of the chat for disruptive behavior
Jason Weitzman [12:47 PM]
hahahah
agreed
he’s being paid by Reiseindeiorf [sic]
Sean [12:47 PM]
Why didn’t Max like Freddy Garcia?!
Max [12:48 PM]
I thought about it. I determined he didn’t quite pass the Baines test
but it was a very close call
Jason Weitzman [12:48 PM]
if it’s someone you confuse with another player they shouldn’t be in the hall of fame
Max [12:48 PM]
Hafner’s nickname was Pronk. HOF level nickname
Pronk!
Jason Weitzman [12:49 PM]
that’s true!
Sean [12:49 PM]
This is dumb. The guy never made the All Star Game. Omar Infante made an All Star Game.
Max [12:49 PM]
Is Infante next?
Jason Weitzman [12:49 PM]
royals fans never banded together to vote travis hafner into the all star game?
Sean [12:49 PM]
(Travis Hafner never played for the Royals)
Max [12:50 PM]
Royals fans still could gave banded together, Sean!
So could Indians fans
Jason Weitzman [12:50 PM]
my next controversial opinion is that travis hafner played for the royals
Sean [12:50 PM]
Roy Halladay is next. I’m not on the Halladay bandwagon.
Jason Weitzman [12:50 PM]
dammit, i was gonna vote for halladay!
he gets my “was great for so long they’re a hall of famer” plus that also includes many years of being unstoppable
Max [12:51 PM]
I’m a yes on Halladay. I think he’s definitely, definitely getting more support because he tragically died and everyone liked him, but he’s deserving
Jason Weitzman [12:51 PM]
PLUS i think the hall should be more open to guys who got better later IE i am eventually using this argument to vote for josh donaldson for the hall of fame
Max [12:52 PM]
Playoff perfect game. Cy Young in both leagues. And his BRef is litter with bold text in K/BB, IP, CG, etc
Jason Weitzman [12:52 PM]
playing versus certain steroids hitters like bonds and larry walker
Max [12:52 PM]
But I do think he’d be borderline if still alive
Also, better than Baines
Jason Weitzman [12:52 PM]
two Cy Youngs!
Max [12:52 PM]
#betterthanBaines #btB
Sean [12:53 PM]
Yeah, so my opinion was that he had too short of a career, but his 10 year peak included a 145 ERA+.
Max [12:53 PM]
16 years though…
Jason Weitzman [12:54 PM]
7 years of leading in complete games! not a hall of fame standard but that’s insane
Sean [12:54 PM]
Tim Hudson (not next, just an example). Probably not a HOFer. He played for 17 years, had more IP, and an ERA that was .11 higher than Halladay.
Max [12:55 PM]
That’s a very good example. Maybe worth a full post-length comparison
Hudson’s alive though and that doesn’t bode well for him
Jason Weitzman [12:55 PM]
yah tim hudson was always second-best to a lot of guys
hahahah
Sean [12:56 PM]
He should fake his own death. Tupac-style
Jason Weitzman [12:56 PM]
i want Mr. 3000 to happen in real life
Max [12:56 PM]
So where are we on Halladay?
Jason Weitzman [12:56 PM]
i say yes!
Sean [12:56 PM]
I’m fine with moving him on, but I’m chopping him if we get constricted by the 10
Max [12:56 PM]
Also, my phone autocorrects holiday to Halladay, FYI
Jason Weitzman [12:57 PM]
hahaha
Sean [12:57 PM]
Todd Helton, definitely a HOFer
Max [12:57 PM]
Helton’s a yes for me
Jason Weitzman [12:57 PM]
yeah id give him a yes
Max [12:57 PM]
If Berkman is, Helton is. Plus passes the Baines test with flying colors
.316/.414/.953 for his career
Sean [12:58 PM]
That was easy. The .300/.400/.500 test makes this stuff really easy.
You list OPS at the end there
Max [12:58 PM]
yes i do
OPS is a good stat
Jason Weitzman [12:59 PM]
yah PLUS players not from new york/boston are always undervalued in the hall of fame (semi-controversial opinion)
*underrepresented
Max [12:59 PM]
Interestingly never finished higher than 5th in the MVP voting
Sean [1:00 PM]
Tim Hudson finished second in the Cy voting once
Jason Weitzman [1:00 PM]
29 career caught steals though….
Sean [1:00 PM]
Andruw Jones is next! We voted for him last year and I think we should again
Jason Weitzman [1:00 PM]
i like andruw jones! i vote him in
Max [1:00 PM]
Agreed. I like Andruw. Better than Baines, I’d say
Jason Weitzman [1:00 PM]
defensive wizardry is OVERVAULUED in the real game and UNDERVALUED in the hall of fame
Max [1:01 PM]
#hottake
Jason Weitzman [1:01 PM]
i hypothetically vote for vizquel
yah
oh vizquel’s still on the ballot
kenny lofton is a hall of famer too
Max [1:01 PM]
Who in the MLB gets valued to high because of defense, in your opinnion
Sean [1:01 PM]
Not yet Jason.
Jason Weitzman [1:02 PM]
sorry i jumped ahead there
uhhhhhh hmmmmm
everyone??????
Sean [1:02 PM]
Kevin Pillar.
Jason Weitzman [1:02 PM]
everyone except for jackie bradley jr
mike trout
like
Jason Weitzman [1:02 PM]
good defense will save you 1-2 outs a game, or mauybe even 0
good defense ******by one player!!!!
Sean [1:03 PM]
Jason Heyward
Max [1:03 PM]
Defense is important though. I’d rather have good defense than bad defense
Jason Weitzman [1:03 PM]
that’s true!
Sean [1:03 PM]
Jeff Kent once defended a child against grown men
Max [1:04 PM]
I think Heyward isn’t overrated. People just have to hang their hat on something if they’re going to say he’s good
Jeff Kent is in
I’m a Yes
Jason Weitzman [1:04 PM]
but you’ll def have 3, most likely 4, and maybe even 5-6 plate appearances a game, but a play that you make in the outfield that someone else won’t the difference between that happening and not is really small and only one out
kent spinning bonds’s children around!
for someone who hated the other person so much, im surprised he really tried to save his kid from being pulverized like that
like i dont know if i saw my enemy’d child in danger if i would move or do anything
Max [1:05 PM]
I wouldn’t be surprised if Kent let a kid get splatted
Jason Weitzman [1:05 PM]
*enemy’s
Max [1:05 PM]
He seems like that kind of guy
Sean [1:06 PM]
Wanna know how bad steroids were in that Giants clubhouse? Ellis Burks hit .344 in 2000 (the year Kent won his MVP).
Jason Weitzman [1:06 PM]
hahahah
Max [1:06 PM]
That’s bad
Jason Weitzman [1:06 PM]
this is why i think steroids disqualifies you because you just become tony gwynn if you take steroids
although it is funny when players take steroids and still suck
Max [1:07 PM]
That is funny
Sean [1:07 PM]
Have you ever looked at Ellis Burks’ b-ref page? Dude had close to 50 WAR.
Max [1:07 PM]
HOFer!
Better than Baines. #teamburks
Sean [1:08 PM]
OK, but we’ll move Kent along.
Jason Weitzman [1:08 PM]
i forgot ellis burks was on the 2004 sox!
Sean [1:08 PM]
Rapid fire time. One comment per player for 6 players.
Max [1:08 PM]
I didn’t even know that until right now
Jason Weitzman [1:08 PM]
agree
Max [1:08 PM]
Ok. Go
Sean [1:08 PM]
Ted Lilly
Jason Weitzman [1:09 PM]
he was on the blue jays. that is all i can say
Max [1:09 PM]
He’s not still playing? I feel like he is.
Sean [1:09 PM]
Derek Lowe
Max [1:09 PM]
In. I’m a yes on Lowe
Jason Weitzman [1:09 PM]
the ellis burks 2004 red sox teammate is in MY PERSONAL HALL OF FAME but not the real one that matters
Sean [1:10 PM]
it’s a no
Edgar Martinez
Jason Weitzman [1:10 PM]
YESSSSS to edgar
here’s my thought that i wanted to share!
Sean [1:10 PM]
.300/.400/.500. He’s in
Max [1:10 PM]
Yes. And Jason better be a yes too if he wants Ortiz later
Jason Weitzman [1:10 PM]
it’s in the freakin RULEBOOK that you can be a designated hitter so you can play DH and be in the hall of fame, the argument makes no sense
if he was on an NL team and a shitty first baseman we wouldn’t be even questioning it
Max [1:11 PM]
But doesn’t this contradict your defense being undervalued in the Hall voting argument?
Jason Weitzman [1:11 PM]
hmmmmmmmm
hmmmmmmmmm
how do i explain this
with my 1 comment limit
Max [1:12 PM]
make it a good one…..
(there’s no length limit)
Jason Weitzman [1:12 PM]
defense is only additive in my PERSONAL opinion FOR HALL OF FAME VOTING FOR ME
it’s obviously different in the real game
but like nobody votes against bonds for being garbage in the field
it can only HELP
plus
ok now im gonna sounds like colin cowherd
it’s the BASEBALL hall of fame
so you should be rewarded for good BASEBALL which is HITTING PITCHING and DEFENSE
SANDAHARU OH SHOULD BE IN THE HALL OF FMAE
*FAME
Max [1:14 PM]
This is going off the rails. Who’s next, Sean?
Jason Weitzman [1:14 PM]
hahaha we havent even gotten to my schilling theory
Sean [1:14 PM]
Max [1:14 PM]
Yes
Jason Weitzman [1:14 PM]
oooooooh
id say borderline, yes for now!
Sean [1:15 PM]
I’m a hard yes. I wrote a post about it. And OTBB has another one running sometime soon, too.
Max [1:15 PM]
In previous years, I’ve been down on CrimeDog and opposed to his inclusion
Jason Weitzman [1:15 PM]
if you google fred mcgriff the first thing that comes up is “fred mcgrifff hall of fame” which gets you some votes
Max [1:15 PM]
This year, with the clarity of the Baines Barometer, I’m an easy yes.
Jason Weitzman [1:15 PM]
hahahah
Sean [1:15 PM]
The guys with more years of 30 homers than the Crime dog: Aaron, A-Rod, Ruth, Bonds, Schmidt, Foxx, Manny, Thome, Sosa, Mays, McGwire, Pujols.
Jason Weitzman [1:16 PM]
yeah the veterans committee really undid all of the borderline candidates by letting in baines
mcgriff should be the borderline for candidates, not baines IMO
Max [1:16 PM]
I wonder what his total will actually be this year. Can’t be much higher than in years past
This is his last shot and he had like 23% last year
Jason Weitzman [1:17 PM]
he also has like 52 war so maybe if you hit 50 war that’s a good metric for hall of fame (experiement to be proved right or wrong can be done later)
Sean [1:17 PM]
He’s at 35% on the tracker of known ballots
Jason Weitzman [1:17 PM]
Mcgriff’s hall of fame meter is exactly 100
he’s a total borderline
that’s low
Max [1:18 PM]
The known ballots are, in my experience, usually higher on the borderline guys and they come down in the final total
Because the Olds don’t release their ballots
Jason Weitzman [1:18 PM]
yah that makes sense
Sean [1:19 PM]
I also kinda think that he’s so far from getting in that he might be a lost cause. I think he should be in though.
Because of his swag
Max [1:19 PM]
I’m sure the Veterans Committee will clean it up for him…..
Jason Weitzman [1:19 PM]
hahaha
Sean [1:19 PM]
Next up is Mike Mussina, another very borderline candidate
Max [1:20 PM]
So personally, I do not believe Mussina is a HOFer. However, he passes the Baines test so I’m a yes
Jason Weitzman [1:20 PM]
red sox fan me im borderline is in and supposed yankee fan MAX votes no on him
yah
he gets the is really good/great for so long that they should be in
even though in my opinion he was probably WORSE SLIGHTLY than halladay and around the same time
also they need to stuff some pitchers in there because i dont really know if many pitchers outside of kershaw are hall of fame pitchers right now
and like felix hernandez is becoming borderline even though id put him in the early hall of fame vote
hall of fame early decision
Sean [1:21 PM]
He was definitely not as good as Halladay and I’m unclear on Halladay. I think pitchers are tough
Max [1:21 PM]
That’s a super interesting point. How man surefire HOF pitchers are currently playing?
Jason Weitzman [1:21 PM]
im throwing a lot out there
this was not an original idea btw but i do agree with it
felix hernandez should be in early decision
like
we’re gonna be debating if david price should be in the hall of fame in 11 years
Max [1:22 PM]
Verlander, Kershaw,
Jason Weitzman [1:22 PM]
oh yeah def veralnder
Max [1:22 PM]
cc?
Jason Weitzman [1:23 PM]
ooooooh! i like that one!
Max [1:23 PM]
Scherzer probably?
Jason Weitzman [1:23 PM]
he’s gonna be borderline, trending yes
oh yeah
scherzer has to be
but he gets the late bloomer exemption
Max [1:23 PM]
Chris Sale has a shot at it but its not many guys
Jason Weitzman [1:23 PM]
yah plus also it’s too early for sale honestly
Max [1:23 PM]
Sean, where are you on Mussina. Seems like we’re torn
Jason Weitzman [1:24 PM]
yeah this is the deciding vote
Sean [1:24 PM]
I’m out on Mussina
Max [1:24 PM]
Why?
Jason Weitzman [1:24 PM]
woahhhhhh
this is the first suprise IMO
Sean [1:25 PM]
We’re literally already at 10 onto round 2. Moose was 23% better than league average over his career (per ERA+). I feel like that’s not good.
Good enough*
Max [1:26 PM]
A strategic decision! Interesting
Ok, Moose is out.
Jason Weitzman [1:26 PM]
interestinggggg
Max [1:26 PM]
Who’s next?
Sean [1:26 PM]
The 83 bWAR does make me pause, but I’m OK with it.
Jason Weitzman [1:26 PM]
darren oliver
no
Max [1:27 PM]
Actually Darren Oliver?
He’s on the ballot?
Jason Weitzman [1:27 PM]
i just realized rick ankiel has a career 8.9 war
yah
Max [1:27 PM]
His stats are not very good.
20 years, 4.51 ERA. No all stars, no votes of any kind
Jason Weitzman [1:28 PM]
he was a starter and then a reliever so he’s kinda like dennis eckersley
Sean [1:28 PM]
Ari nicknamed him “Father Time” in a Blue Jays post from 2012.
Max [1:28 PM]
I would say he’s not very much like Dennis Eckersley
Can we get a link to that one, Sean?
Sean [1:29 PM]
Off The BenchOff The Bench
Toronto Blue Jays Season Preview: Upgrade!
The remanent international franchise in MLB finished the 2012 season at 73-89 in the AL East. Thanks to the Red Sox though, they didn’t finish last. It was a fairly typical season in Toronto, one marked by sustained mediocrity interrupted sporadically by periods of ineptitude and injury. But, that all changed as soon as the […]
Mar 20th, 2013
Next up is Roy Oswalt, who I really like
But not for the HOF
Max [1:29 PM]
I’m a yes. Baines test
Jason Weitzman [1:29 PM]
i say NO for now for oswalt
Sean [1:29 PM]
He’s not as good as Halladay. He’s in the same Baines Bucket as Mussina
Jason Weitzman [1:29 PM]
but maybe in a few years
throw him in the baines bucket!
Sean [1:29 PM]
It’s a Baines test vs Baines Bucket!
Jason Weitzman [1:29 PM]
mussina is wayyyyyyy better than baines
hahahaha
Max [1:30 PM]
Mussina got my vote!
Sean [1:30 PM]
This is true. But I didn’t make up the rules for the Baines Bucket
Jason Weitzman [1:31 PM]
hahah oh yeah, i guess also like Rogers Honrsby [sic?]is in the baines bucket
Max [1:31 PM]
Is Rogers Hornsby not in the hall?
Jason Weitzman [1:31 PM]
nah he’s in the hall! i thought hall of famers are in the bucket
i just dont know the rules of the baines bucket
Max [1:31 PM]
Oh. The Bucket confuses me
Jason Weitzman [1:31 PM]
oh you can be too good for the baines bucket?
yah
Sean [1:32 PM]
The Baines Bucket is just outside the Hall. You’re kinda in Cooperstown, but not really
Max [1:32 PM]
So is Oswalt on our ballot?
Or at least in round 2?
Sean [1:33 PM]
No. But he gets to hang out in Cooperstown in the Bucket. So does Mussina
Jason Weitzman [1:33 PM]
oh they’re sitting in the bucket?
Max [1:33 PM]
How big is this bucket?
Jason Weitzman [1:33 PM]
i thought it was regular bucket sized
Sean [1:33 PM]
Once people kick the bucket, then others want them in the Hall. No dead people in the bucket
Jason Weitzman [1:33 PM]
hahahah
Max [1:34 PM]
Next!
Jason Weitzman [1:35 PM]
max’s favorite player of all time
Max [1:35 PM]
Andrew Eugene Pettitte?
Jason Weitzman [1:35 PM]
hahaha well according to baseball reference it’s this other player named “Andy Pettitte”
Sean [1:36 PM]
The steroid stuff really hurts Pettitte
Max [1:36 PM]
I’m a yes
Agreed though. Not a good look
Jason Weitzman [1:36 PM]
i know max is gonna get upset so im a no but im gonna tell max i voted yes
Max [1:37 PM]
I know Pettitte isn’t a hall of famer, but I think he has a legitimate case and I think there’s a decent chance he gets booted off the ballot becasue he’s hard to justify with these other players on the list and that’s stupid and bad.
Sean [1:37 PM]
I’m a no because of the steroids. I don’t think he has the good tail end of his career without them and therefore I don’t think he’s in.
Jason Weitzman [1:38 PM]
yah i say he was reaally really good but never a hall of famer plus steroids hurts him plus manny is one of my favorite players and i wont vote for him cuz steroids
Max [1:38 PM]
I’d say Pettitte legit deserves 25% of the vote. He won’t get it
Jason Weitzman [1:38 PM]
does he get a bucket?
Max [1:39 PM]
I think he’s bucket worthy!
Sean [1:39 PM]
Hey Max, do you have an Pettitte pajamas?
Max [1:39 PM]
Nope. Do have 2 shirsey’s though
Jason Weitzman [1:40 PM]
hahaha
Sean [1:41 PM]
Juan Pierre made the ballot, which gives me a reason to tell you that he played every game for 5 straight years
He’s 18th on the all time stolen base chart. I’m a big fan of rewarding steals, but 18th is too low to make a legit case
Max [1:42 PM]
yeah he’s not good enough. I dont think he passes the Baines test
Jason Weitzman [1:43 PM]
yeah unlike in real life now he’s cloggin up the basepaths
Max [1:43 PM]
Good player though. There was a little while he and Luis Castillo were awesome for the Marlins
Jason Weitzman [1:44 PM]
those marlins teams were insane
like when you hear about the expos minor league system
Max [1:44 PM]
The Jeff Conine era
Jason Weitzman [1:44 PM]
i guess if you trade a million players wou’re gonna have a few great ones
hahahah
jeff mathis, greatest marlin of all time?
Max [1:45 PM]
No
But you definitely have to have a ton of talent to be able to trade away 2 MVP winners in a row
Sean [1:46 PM]
Placido Polanco had a better career than you think
Max [1:46 PM]
I could be talked into Placido Polanco.
Jason Weitzman [1:46 PM]
ehhhhh nahhhhhhh
Max [1:46 PM]
His Bref page looks kind of Baines-y
Jason Weitzman [1:47 PM]
wow i was just writing “he’s bainsian”
Max [1:47 PM]
Well then I’m officially a yes on Polanco!
Jason Weitzman [1:47 PM]
hahaha
Max [1:47 PM]
You guys will need to outvote me to keep him from round 2
Sean [1:47 PM]
He had more WAR than Baines
He hit .297 over 16 years. He hasn’t received a single vote that we know of
Max [1:48 PM]
until now!
Jason Weitzman [1:48 PM]
max has a significant voting block chuck with giving him 1/3rd of the votes
*chunk
Max [1:48 PM]
I am the no so silent minority
*not
Jason Weitzman [1:48 PM]
jhahah
hall of famer batters, you need to be legit terrified when they’re at the plate
OR their defense is so good it’s well-known around the league
Sean [1:49 PM]
First guy to win a gold glove at more than one position
Max [1:49 PM]
Sean it sounds like you might be on my side here…..
Jason Weitzman [1:49 PM]
that seems cool!
Max [1:49 PM]
That is cool
Jason, does Baines meet either of those criteria?
Jason Weitzman [1:49 PM]
the way it’s worded on his baseball reference page it looks like he won a gold glove for one start at DH in 2007
Max [1:50 PM]
They should absolutely give DH Gold Gloves out
Jason Weitzman [1:50 PM]
ehhhhhh seeming cool is hall of fame criteria?
i completely agree!
Max [1:50 PM]
best hands at the water cooler. once caught a bag of seeds that fell
Sean [1:50 PM]
I’d like our ballot to be the one for Polanco but not at the expense of other guys.
Max [1:50 PM]
Sounds like round 2 to me!
Sean [1:50 PM]
Can you prove this story about the water cooler?
Jason Weitzman [1:51 PM]
good at handing a foul tip back to the ball boy
Max [1:51 PM]
No, those were my justifications for choosing someone as the DH GG award winner
So Polanco moves on. Who’s next?
Sean [1:52 PM]
Manny Ramirez
Jason Weitzman [1:52 PM]
MANNNNNYYYYYYYY
Max [1:52 PM]
I’m a yes
Jason Weitzman [1:52 PM]
CULTURALLLLLLY one of the best of all time but no for steroids
Sean [1:52 PM]
I really think Polanco has a better case than Vizquel
Jason Weitzman [1:52 PM]
and manny is one of my favorites ever
Sean [1:53 PM]
I’m a yes for Manny. I got his signature once
Jason Weitzman [1:53 PM]
THANK YOU FOR VOTING HIM IN FOR ME
he should go in with the hat for that Taipei team he played for
or maybe taiwan, im sorry i got these wrong!
Sean [1:54 PM]
Max [1:54 PM]
There’s steroids and then there’s what Manny did. He did steroids on steroids
Mo!
Sean [1:54 PM]
Max – do you have a Rivera stat for us?
Max [1:54 PM]
I realize the whole ‘unanimous hall of famer’ thing is stupid but if someone doesn’t vote for Rivera they can go to hell
That’s my stat
Jason Weitzman [1:55 PM]
im a yes for mo for the reasons that he’s the best reliever of all time but it would be INSANE if he’s voted unanimously because he’s not the most deserving unamious
god dman it i was just writing that
silence
Sean [1:55 PM]
Scott Rolen, who we voted for last year
Jason Weitzman [1:56 PM]
i say he was ivery very good but a NO
Max [1:56 PM]
I’m a yes. Better than Baines. Also, genuinely really good
Jason Weitzman [1:56 PM]
i wasn’t here last year!
Max [1:56 PM]
Oohh. Make the case against
Jason Weitzman [1:56 PM]
yes, geniounly very very good, sometimes grat
ehhhhhh
welllllllll
you can’t put in everybody
that’s the worst argument
his stats do look good
Max [1:57 PM]
There are only 11 third basemen in the Hall of Fame
Jason Weitzman [1:57 PM]
im just sayin when he was playing it wasn’t like “ooooohhhh shit, scott rolen’s up”
Sean [1:57 PM]
he’s a really well-rounded player, which is traditionally not good for HOF chances. Plus, he’s a third baseman and there are only like 7 third basemen in the Hall.
Jason Weitzman [1:57 PM]
that’s a good point
Max [1:57 PM]
11
cmon sean
Jason Weitzman [1:57 PM]
hahaha
Max [1:58 PM]
:slightly_smiling_face:
Jason Weitzman [1:58 PM]
max you said no emojis!
Max [1:58 PM]
Ahhh! Sorry!
Jason Weitzman [1:58 PM]
i have never used an emoji in my entire life
Sean [1:58 PM]
So Jason’s out? I don’t feel strongly about him. I can drop him
Jason Weitzman [1:58 PM]
this is gonna crash everyone’s system
yeahhhhh id say no on him
Max [1:58 PM]
I typed a colon and a paren!
Slack betrayed me
Jason Weitzman [1:58 PM]
hahahah
Max [1:58 PM]
We’re kicking Jason out because he wants to vote against Rolen?
Jason Weitzman [1:59 PM]
yeah idk, nobody said brooks robinson and later on machado won’t make it cuz they’re insanely good hitters
Sean [1:59 PM]
We already kicked Max out.
Jason Weitzman [1:59 PM]
but not rolen!
just sean is left
although nobody is saying that rolen is worse than baines
Sean [1:59 PM]
Publishing a conversation with myself could be dangerous for future Presidential Election purposes.
Max [2:00 PM]
Eh #nothingmatters
Jason Weitzman [2:00 PM]
hahahah
Max [2:00 PM]
Plus, we’ve got enough already to keep you out of office
So is Rolen in round 2?
Jason Weitzman [2:01 PM]
he got in 2-1! i said no
Max [2:01 PM]
Great! Who’s next?
Jason Weitzman [2:02 PM]
curt schilling! here is my curt schilling theory i have had FOR YEARS and it will FINALLY BE REVEALED!
so
Max [2:02 PM]
I’m so excited
Jason Weitzman [2:02 PM]
as we all know, curt schilling was a baseball player and then went crazy
Max [2:02 PM]
go on…
Jason Weitzman [2:02 PM]
we’ll just start the theory with that im not a liscensed psychoterapist and all i have done is taken a psych 101
but my psychoanalytic theory on curt schilling is:
upon his retirement he REALIZED he was a borderline hall of famer with his baseball stats, not a definite yes and not a hard no either, so he probably could have gotten in, but also maybe not. SO instead of leaving it up to the baseball writers, he realized that it was more likely for him to GO ABSOLUTELY INSANE and say a bunch of crazy stuff, so then baseball voters would be like “we can’t vote for him because he is crazy” instead of “we can’t vote for him because he wasn’t a good enough pitcher,” so then the argument for him not being good enough he could complain about that instead of coming to terms with his baseball stats weren’t just not hall of fame worthy
i have been developing this FOR YEARS and i have never told anyone
plus he responds to people on twitter so ive never wanted to tag him because then hell just attack me
so basically his mindset was just to get people to talk about he’s a crazy person instead of his stats, whether this is done consciously or subconsciously
Max [2:06 PM]
So you’re saying his racism and hatred and general all around awfulness is basically a ‘you can’t fire me, I quit’ gambit?
Jason Weitzman [2:07 PM]
wellll he was trash before, but he really played it up after he retired so he could blame not getting into the hall of fame on THAT instead of being not good enough baseball-wise
Max [2:07 PM]
It’s an …. interesting theory
Jason Weitzman [2:08 PM]
i do think he is really racist always and also, less bad, a bad business person
but the bad business was a start
try to sink 30 million rhode island dollars so people would blame that
JUST A THEORY
Max [2:08 PM]
So it sounds like you’re a no on Crazy Curt?
Jason Weitzman [2:08 PM]
yah he gets a no
Max [2:09 PM]
He’s better thank Baines, so I’m torn, but I cannot abide his terribleness. He’s a no for me
Jason Weitzman [2:09 PM]
i also think all the ken rosenthals of the world are like “ohmygod i love curt, just look at his stats and separate the stats from the personality” but honestly fuck that shit, get the racists out of the hall of fame! screw ty cobb!
Max [2:10 PM]
This isn’t HBO!
Jason Weitzman [2:10 PM]
hahahah oh i meant, darn that ty cobb!
Sean [2:11 PM]
I love Jason’s theory. It’d be way better if he went full Jose Conseco though and just became a reality TV star who didn’t care about anything
Max [2:12 PM]
He kind of is?
Jason Weitzman [2:12 PM]
hahahah yeah! he’s got some right wing talk show so it’s a weird fake famous thing
everyone can just make their own radio show nowadays so it doesnt make you famous just cuz you have a microphone and audacity
this is a controversial non-baseball opinion i have
Sean [2:13 PM]
OTBB has a podcast
Jason Weitzman [2:13 PM]
hahahah
Max [2:13 PM]
OTBB partners with a podcast. We’re not big enough to have our own
Sean [2:13 PM]
Max is right. On to Gary Sheffield!
Jason Weitzman [2:13 PM]
that is a real thing though, none of my theories make any sense
Max [2:13 PM]
I’m a yes on Sheff@
!
Jason Weitzman [2:13 PM]
yes for sheffield!!!!
Max [2:13 PM]
Way better than Baines
Jason Weitzman [2:14 PM]
who would you rather not face, scott rolen or gary sheffield? obviously it’s sheffield, and it’s not a tie
Sean [2:14 PM]
This is a good argument
Max [2:14 PM]
That is a good argument
well done
Jason Weitzman [2:14 PM]
my theories are getting good in this last half!
Sean [2:14 PM]
There were about 5 years where I would not want to face Sammy Sosa.
Jason Weitzman [2:15 PM]
yah
he had a corked bat
Max [2:15 PM]
Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer. 600 homers. Most feared hitter for a like a while. That little American flag thing he did
I’m a yes
Jason Weitzman [2:15 PM]
ehhhh clear steroids
Max [2:15 PM]
He’s like 2.7 Baines on the Baines scale
Jason Weitzman [2:15 PM]
one of the greatest hitters
hahahaha
id like for there to be like 2.7 of baines’ faces as an infographic
how much WAR is one baines?
Max [2:16 PM]
It’s more of a subjective scale. Much like the overall candidacy of Harold Baines
(don’t forget to email me about the Baines shirts if you want one)
Jason Weitzman [2:17 PM]
i mean sometimes you just gotta do something controversial to get people to talk about you which i think the hall of fame did
Sean [2:17 PM]
Miguel Tejada once hit 50 homers
Max [2:17 PM]
Wait is Sosa in Round 2?
Sean [2:17 PM]
Yes
Max [2:17 PM]
Also, I’m a yes on Tejada
Jason Weitzman [2:17 PM]
awww mannnn i wanted to say yes to tejada but he’s steroids
Max [2:17 PM]
2.1 Baineses
maybe 1.8
Jason Weitzman [2:17 PM]
maybe we could have like a Cheater’s Row
Max [2:18 PM]
A miscellaneous unsavory characters wing
Jason Weitzman [2:18 PM]
ok fine ill say yes to tejada as long as the plaque says steroids somewhere on it
yes! it’s like a secret room with a velvet curtain and you have to walk in with security
Max [2:18 PM]
Didn’t Royce Clayton play him in Moneyball? Isn’t that punishment enough?
Sean [2:18 PM]
Does Tejada have the MLB record for most grounded into DP? 277 is so many
Jason Weitzman [2:18 PM]
hahahah
.336 career obp sounds…….low???
Sean [2:19 PM]
(It’s actually Albert Pujols with 374 GDP.)
Max [2:20 PM]
That’s sooooo many
Sean [2:20 PM]
When’s the next time we’ll get to see someone who is the all-time leader in a stat?
Jason Weitzman [2:20 PM]
ooooh that’s a good one!
Max [2:20 PM]
Hmmmm
Jason Weitzman [2:21 PM]
it might be CC who leads active in something but that’s not all time
Sean [2:21 PM]
We should relish this opportunity to see Pujols add to his lead!
Max [2:21 PM]
I actually want to know the answer. Is there an easy one that’s like new to the game or something?
I mean, Trout will be the all time WAR leaders
leader
Sean [2:22 PM]
Saves. Seems like Kimbrel could get there
Jason Weitzman [2:22 PM]
maybe mo is the last one
Max [2:22 PM]
I don’t think he’ll beat Mo
Jason Weitzman [2:22 PM]
can pujols hit 160 more doubles?
Max [2:23 PM]
I want to say yes. But no
He might have like 40 more doubles in him
Jason Weitzman [2:23 PM]
can pujols hit 30 more sac flies?
Max [2:24 PM]
That’s possible!
Sean [2:25 PM]
Justin Upton is on pace to become the all time strikeout king
Jason Weitzman [2:25 PM]
that’s a good one
Max [2:25 PM]
Really? That’s awesome! Who is it now?
Jason Weitzman [2:25 PM]
reggie
i just saw
pjuols for GDP is a good one too
Max [2:26 PM]
I belive in Justin! He can do it!
Jason Weitzman [2:26 PM]
i think it’s reasonable that james shields could give up another 200 home runs
oooooo i found one!
Max [2:26 PM]
Hahah
Jason Weitzman [2:27 PM]
kershaw has a career .207 batting average against behind only nolan ryan with .204 and sandy koufax with .205
that’s gonna be toughhhhh to sustain
and im sure it’s only qualified, it def doesn’t have the time anthony rizzo threw a clean inning
Sean [2:27 PM]
Well but I think this should be counting stats.
Anyway, lets talk about Omar Vizquel
Jason Weitzman [2:28 PM]
huh kent tekulve has the most ibb thrown of all time
i think he was a reliever only
then maddux
Max [2:28 PM]
I’m a yes on Vizquel. 1.2 Baineses
Sean [2:28 PM]
Give me Polanco over Vizquel, but they’re both in the Bucket
Jason Weitzman [2:28 PM]
jauquin benoit only needs 20 holds! ok back to vizquel
im a yes on vizquel!
Max [2:29 PM]
Benoit is a great one!
3-3 for Omar
Jason Weitzman [2:29 PM]
great defense is underrated!
Max [2:29 PM]
haha
Jason Weitzman [2:30 PM]
colon needs only 33 more air outs to be first all time, CC’s not far behind [beuhrle is fuehrst]
kershaw needs 30 pickoffs! ok this needs a new thread
Max [2:31 PM]
beuhrle is fuehrst just made me laugh out loud and this cat gave me a look like she wanted to bit my throat open
Jason Weitzman [2:31 PM]
your cat or a cat outside/.
‘*?
Max [2:31 PM]
Yeah we should move on, it’s been 2 and half hours so far and we still have round 2
the cat i live with.
Any more in round one, Sean?
Jason Weitzman [2:32 PM]
5
Max [2:32 PM]
wow
Jason Weitzman [2:32 PM]
let’s go quick
billy wagner
starting with a very debatable one
he’s actaully born with whatever hand he didn’t throw with i think which if true is interesting!
Max [2:32 PM]
Very True. I’m a yes. Though normally I’d be a no. But because of Baines I’m a yes
Jason Weitzman [2:32 PM]
i say NO although he was the second best relif pitcher in new york for a time!
*ief
Max [2:33 PM]
He was really good. He’s definitely close. 2.31 ERA in about 900 innings, 422 saves
Jason Weitzman [2:34 PM]
that is pretty crazy
Max [2:34 PM]
The 11% he got last year kind of seems right
Sean [2:37 PM]
Imagine if he pitched with his dominant hand!!
Jason Weitzman [2:37 PM]
hahaha
he’d get like 16%
Sean [2:38 PM]
I think we can pass on him, but I also think he’s a top 10 reliever of all time right now. The problem is that we don’t know if that’s good or not.
Jason Weitzman [2:39 PM]
that’s a good way to put it!
Max [2:39 PM]
Good point. Zach Britton could end up with comparable stats
Jason Weitzman [2:39 PM]
ughhhhh
Sean [2:39 PM]
We need to judge these guys in like 15 more years. Great veterans committee target is Wagner. Sean is yoda.
Jason Weitzman [2:40 PM]
hahaha
yeah we’ll let tony la russa get all the abject anger for voting him in
Max [2:40 PM]
So Billy misses the cut for round 2 then. Moving on
Sean [2:40 PM]
Larry Walker is next. He’s in my ballot. .300/.400/.500
Jason Weitzman [2:40 PM]
nahhhhh for me, he clearly did steroids
Max [2:40 PM]
Larry Walker is almost 3 Baineses. He’s in for sure
Jason Weitzman [2:40 PM]
fine ill say yes
with the steroid clause on his plaque
vernon wells!
greattttt player for a little bit, not a hall of famer!
Max [2:41 PM]
Only 35% last year for Walker. He’s going to miss this year and probably have a good shot in 2020
Vernon Wells is exactly 1 Harold Baines
Therefore, I say he’s in
Jason Weitzman [2:42 PM]
greattttt contract
Sean [2:42 PM]
Vernon Wells is just good enough for you to claim you hit with him at a batting cage once and people would be impressed
I don’t think that’s the same as good enough for the Hall of Fame
Jason Weitzman [2:43 PM]
hahaha
Sean [2:43 PM]
HOF worthy is basically nobody believes that you actually hit with that guy
Jason Weitzman [2:43 PM]
woah i didnt realize how much better baines was than vernon wells looking at their stats
Max [2:43 PM]
Vernon Wells tweeted something noteworthy the other day. I liked it. I don’t remember what it was though
Oh really? Maybe I should bother to look
Sean [2:44 PM]
Kevin Youkilis! The Greek God!
Max [2:44 PM]
Oh yeah, Wells is .8 Baineses. He’s out
Jason Weitzman [2:44 PM]
[sounds like “Boo”] YOOOOOOUUUUUUK!!!!!
Max [2:44 PM]
Youk is .9 Baineses
Jason Weitzman [2:45 PM]
youk is a personal top five FAVORITE players, but no hall of famer
oh god i hope youkilis’s stats are better than baines’s
Sean [2:45 PM]
They’re not
Jason Weitzman [2:45 PM]
BETTER THAN BAINES!!!!
Max [2:45 PM]
No. Definitely not
He owns a brewery now I think
Sean [2:46 PM]
Really? I must go.
Jason Weitzman [2:46 PM]
yah he tweeted about it so much i unfollowed him
Max [2:46 PM]
Its in San Diego I want to say. But that might not be right
He really has no case for the hall.
Jason Weitzman [2:46 PM]
cincinatti? he loves cinciannti
Max [2:46 PM]
Can we move on?
Jason Weitzman [2:47 PM]
yah! BUT YOUK IF YOU ARE READING ME AND THE REST OF THE RED SOX FANS APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE DONE
Sean [2:47 PM]
He has a beer called the Greek God of Hops. I hate over-hopped beer, but I gotta try it
Last player is Michael Young
Max [2:48 PM]
I’m a yes on Michael Young
Jason Weitzman [2:48 PM]
what is this the hall of ALL STAR GAMES
i still cant tell michael young and ian kinsler apart and if you think a player is someone else they shuldnt be in the hall of fame
no on young
Sean [2:49 PM]
How can we teach the children about baseball history if they cannot see because of all the stars?
Jason Weitzman [2:49 PM]
hahahah
Max [2:49 PM]
He’s not quite as good as Baines actually, which I find surprising. But he was good
Jason Weitzman [2:50 PM]
negative -100 OPS+ in his debut season
Max [2:50 PM]
.300 career average
Only 28 points lower than Tony Gwynn
Jason Weitzman [2:51 PM]
he’s better than i remember but also not that good (sorry if youre reading this, michael or ian kinsler or whoever you are!)
Max [2:51 PM]
Agreed, 100%
Jason Weitzman [2:51 PM]
that stupid ass articel that said tony gwynn wasn’t a good hitter becuase he didn’t have a good exit velocity or launch angle is so stupid ass
*article
Max [2:52 PM]
So if he’s out, where does that leave us through round 1. How many do we have Sean?
Jason Weitzman [2:52 PM]
i think we voted in all of them
Sean [2:52 PM]
I think we have 15.
Jason Weitzman [2:52 PM]
oh that’s not bad!
Max [2:52 PM]
I think I voted for like 25
Jason Weitzman [2:52 PM]
just ten of them will have to pay max off
Max [2:52 PM]
I don’t think that list is right
Walker?
Rivera?
Jason Weitzman [2:53 PM]
Pokey Reese
Sean [2:53 PM]
1. Berkman,
2. Bonds,
3. Clemens,
4. (Garcia),
5. Halladay,
6. Helton,
7. A Jones,
8. Kent,
9. Edgar,
10. McGriff
11. Placido Polanco
12. Manny
13. Rolen
14. Rivera
15. Sheff
16. Sosa
17. Walker
Max [2:54 PM]
Those were the only two you had missing?
Cool!
Sean [2:54 PM]
If you’ll notice, this is a list of 17. So we’ve cut the list in half.
Max [2:54 PM]
That’s pretty good
Sean [2:54 PM]
We can also remove Freddy Garcia and Placido Polanco because they don’t really need to be there
Jason Weitzman [2:54 PM]
agrreeed!
Max [2:54 PM]
Agreed.
Can we also remove Kent?
Jason Weitzman [2:55 PM]
yes!!!
Sean [2:55 PM]
So we need to vote out 5. Jeff Kent and Scott Rolen are 2 that I vote to remove
Jason Weitzman [2:55 PM]
yesssss!!!!!
Max [2:55 PM]
Bye Scott!
So 3 more?
Jason Weitzman [2:56 PM]
1. Berkman,
2. Bonds,
3. Clemens,
4. Halladay,
5. Helton,
6. A Jones,
7. Edgar,
8. McGriff
9. Manny
10. Rivera
11. Sheff
12. Sosa
13. Walker
Max [2:56 PM]
I’m leaning towards McGriff, Sheff, and Andruw coming off
Sean [2:57 PM]
I want Clemens out of there
Jason Weitzman [2:57 PM]
clemens off, sheffield on
mcgriff and jones off
Max [2:57 PM]
Can we justify leaving Bonds on but taking Clemens off?
Jason Weitzman [2:57 PM]
that’s my compromise
yah and clememns off but larry walker on
and not even one deseriving vote for Nick Punto
*deserving
Max [2:58 PM]
And leaving Manny on but taking Clemens off?
Jason Weitzman [2:58 PM]
we don’t have to put ten on
Max [2:59 PM]
Bonds must stay
Sean [2:59 PM]
I’m fine with a dumb ballot
Jason Weitzman [2:59 PM]
id say bonds clemens halladay helton edgar manny rivera sheffield sosa thats it
Max [3:00 PM]
i’d say Bonds, Clemens, Halladay, Helton, Edgar, Manny, Rivera, Sosa, Walker
Jason Weitzman [3:00 PM]
Bonds, Clemens, Halladay, Helton, Edgar, Manny, Rivera, Sosa, Walker plus sheffield
that is ten
Max [3:01 PM]
I forgot Berkman. I want Berkman too
Sean [3:02 PM]
I’d say Berkman, Bonds, Halladay, Helton, AJones, Edgar, McGriff, Rivera, Sheff, Walker
No Clemens, Manny, or Sosa (known steroid guys except for Bonds)
Max [3:02 PM]
Hmmmmm
So Halladay, Helton, Rivera, Bonds, Martinez are safe
Jason Weitzman [3:03 PM]
i like sean’s although i would also say sean’s minus berkman
Max [3:03 PM]
I like mine
Jason Weitzman [3:03 PM]
berkman is like a lower-echelon hall of famer
hahaha
Max [3:03 PM]
McGriff is simply not one of the top 10 players on this list
Jason Weitzman [3:03 PM]
agrred!
Sean [3:04 PM]
Yes – but that’s different!
Max [3:04 PM]
We have 5 slots for 8 players. Let’s whittle it down
Vote:
Larry walker
yes or no
Sean [3:04 PM]
yes
Max [3:05 PM]
yes
Jason Weitzman [3:05 PM]
no
sorry!
Max [3:05 PM]
Andruw Jones
Jason Weitzman [3:05 PM]
yes!
Max [3:05 PM]
no
Sean [3:05 PM]
Yes
Jason Weitzman [3:05 PM]
yeah sean!
hahaha
wait let’s keep going
WAITTTTTT
i have a good one
we need to whittle down 3 votes
we are in total three people
everyone gets a goldeneye-inspired golden gun!
not kill them
Sean [3:06 PM]
Max is a cyborg
Jason Weitzman [3:06 PM]
but we all pick one person who is off the ballot!
and call it a day
high stakes!
Max [3:06 PM]
Sure, I like it
Sean [3:07 PM]
I vote Clemens off
Jason Weitzman [3:07 PM]
woooo! so….who are the eight we can choose from?
oooooooHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Max [3:07 PM]
The 8 are:
Jason Weitzman [3:07 PM]
and it’s russian roulette style so fred mcgriff doesnt get kicked off three times
Max [3:07 PM]
Clemens
Mcgriff
Ramirez
Walker
Jones
Sheffield
Sosa
Sean [3:08 PM]
Berkman
Max [3:08 PM]
right, yes
Ok. Those are them
Jason Weitzman [3:08 PM]
ok i am gonna use mine on…..larry walker
Max [3:09 PM]
wow.
brutal
Jason Weitzman [3:09 PM]
yah
Max [3:09 PM]
Sean, you want to go next?
Sean [3:09 PM]
I picked Clemens.
Jason Weitzman [3:09 PM]
take that, canada!
Max [3:09 PM]
I pick McGriff
Jason Weitzman [3:09 PM]
oooooooohhhhhhhhhhh
i used mine really politically
for the hall of fame vote, not for US-canadian relations
Max [3:10 PM]
This was a good method.
Jason Weitzman [3:10 PM]
it was like survivor
Sean [3:10 PM]
1. Berkman
2. Bonds
3. Halladay
4. Helton
5. A Jones
6. Edgar
7. Manny
8. Rivera
9. Sheff
10. Sosa
I hate it.
Max [3:10 PM]
I find it fine!
Jason Weitzman [3:11 PM]
i would whittle it down but i have somehwere to be!
Max [3:11 PM]
nope. we have 10. We’re done
Great job everyone!
I rate that list 1.4 Baineses
Jason Weitzman [3:11 PM]
hahaha
Sean [3:11 PM]
There have been 165 ballots made public so far. None match ours.
Max [3:11 PM]
Hahaha. Perfect
Jason Weitzman [3:11 PM]
wow
