Discussing the MLB Labor Situation with Dan Epstein
Max 2:29 PM
Daaaaan! There haven’t been any MLB games in months, yet it was a very, very busy week for baseball. Mind catching us up on what’s been going on? (Oh, and hi Sean)
Sean 2:33 PM
depstein1983 2:33 PM
Well, the short version is that everything is terrible.
The slightly longer version is the owners submitted a proposal to the players to resume the season, but it was nothing but a money grab. They’re trying to get the players to take obscene, unnecessary pay cuts above what they agreed to in March. Then they released 1,000 minor leaguers, who now have no income and have to find a new career. Meanwhile, NBC reported that billionaires across America have become $434 billion dollars richer since the start of the pandemic. Am I missing anything?
Max 2:37 PM
That does seem to be the gist.
Also the A’s have somehow made themselves look worse than everyone else, the Royals look better, and a minor leaguer dissed Tim Tebow on Instagram
depstein1983 2:38 PM
Oh, and the owners still won’t release their books publicly to support their claims of losses, even though they are taxpayer subsidized by the federal anti-trust exemption, and they all play in taxpayer funded stadiums.
So… a minor leaguer dissed another minor leaguer, is what you’re saying.
Max 2:39 PM
It sort of seems to me that we’re seeing a years-long labor negotiation take place over the course of just a few weeks, no?
depstein1983 2:41 PM
We are, and this is NOT the time for negotiations. Every other sports league in the world is figuring out ways to reopen. Only MLB is using it as an excuse to attempt drastic salary cuts to minor and major league players as well as team employees.
Max 2:42 PM
Absolutely. The players and owners have been at each other’s throats off and on since the 1960s and this seems to be the culmination of a lot of pent up animosity
My question, for now, we’ll get to other issues shortly, is why. From a purely self- interested point of view, shouldn’t both sides be highly motivated to get on the field ASAP to own the sports landscape? Seems like they should be willing to take a short term hit to get a long term major gain
depstein1983 2:43 PM
It’s more than animosity. It’s flat-out, one-sided greed. MLB is trying to pin the MLBPA’s back to the wall. They’re saying, “Accept these pay cuts so we can get even richer. Otherwise, no baseball and everyone will be angry.”
Max 2:44 PM
I think they misread the room. 2020 is not likely to blame the players over ownership. Is it?
depstein1983 2:46 PM
Depends who you talk to. The MLBPA has done an awful job of promoting their position to the public over the last several decades. A lot of people, especially casual or non-baseball fans, just see that the owners made a proposal, the players didn’t accept, and now there’s no baseball. MLB has used their vast media connections to portray the players as “greedy millionaires,” when in most cases neither of those adjectives are accurate.
Max 2:47 PM
That’s absolutely right. The players union has allowed themselves to be completely played.
The soft-collusion free agent freeze out is, amazingly, just one small example
depstein1983 2:48 PM
Besides, if we’ve learned anything about society over the past, say, four years, it’s that people will rarely let logic and reason win the messaging over the guy who screams louder and less coherently.
Max 2:48 PM
Let’s talk about logic.
What’s the logic of decimating the minor leagues? They’re both cutting teams and cutting players.
Short term, money, yes. Long term? What’s the vision?
depstein1983 2:50 PM
In 2018, the owners each received a $50 million check from the sale of BAMTech, part of their media wing. They didn’t share that windfall with the players whatsoever. Now, they’re incurring losses (allegedly). That’s business! The owner is supposed to take the good with the bad, and there’s been A LOT more good than bad. As Craig Calcaterra explains, they want to privatize the gains and socialize the losses. That’s unfair.
There are a number of reasons to be skeptical of that spin, however.
Uh, sorry. what was the question?
depstein1983 2:51 PM
Oh! Minor leagues. Well, they can save a few dollars, even if it means losing a huge chunk of publicly subsidized goodwill.
Max 2:52 PM
But what about 5 years from now when the cheap source of talent is drying up?
Seems to me smart owners would want to expand the minors and screw veterans/ big time free agents, no? Certainly, the odds for the World Series have changed with all this.
Is this all a problem of short-term thinking?
depstein1983 2:53 PM
We’ve always taken it as fact that MLB wants to recruit the best players at all times. By wiping out so many minor league teams, that is no longer strictly true.
Yes. Like many of their decisions, it’s penny wise, pound foolish.
But why should they care! When it comes back to bite them down the road, the current generation of owners will have mostly cashed out.
Max 2:55 PM
So that’s it? Burn down the house and take as much copper wire from the walls as possible on the way out?
If so, why isn’t this happening in other sports? And why now?
depstein1983 2:58 PM
It appears so. My biggest fear is that, with these short term money grabs, they are artificially inflating franchise values. Just as we saw with the housing market, that creates an economic bubble. Let’s say most owners sell in the next 5-10 years at inflated multi-billion dollar prices. The new owners will be highly leveraged to pay the sale price. Then, when the bubble pops, they’ll be under water.
What happens then? I don’t know. Maybe we have to bail out MLB like we did with Wall Street.
Max 2:58 PM
Maybe the cities should get involved!
depstein1983 2:59 PM
Indeed they should, but it requires politicians with spine, and those are in short supply. Besides if you’re the mayor and you play hardball with the team, then the team threatens to leave, good luck getting reelected.
Max 3:00 PM
Is this all Rob Manfred’s fault?
depstein1983 3:00 PM
That depends on your perspective. Also, yes.
depstein1983 3:00 PM
This is a pleasant conversation that is not at all a downer.
Max 3:00 PM
Well baseball right now is a downer!
Sean’s supposed to be sprinkling gifs in to lighten the mood. He’s failing
depstein1983 3:01 PM
Manfred is the tool of the owners. He does their bidding to make them as much money as possible. This is not the result of him being bad at his job. In fact, he’s scarily good at it. It’s just that the job of the commissioner has evolved into something sinister.
Seriously, way to go Sean.
Max 3:02 PM
So is his dream to be Rodger Goodell? A shield/shill for the owners that makes $44 million a year?
depstein1983 3:03 PM
I think Goodell dreams of being Manfred.
Max 3:03 PM
How so?
depstein1983 3:04 PM
Manfred is an even bigger shill. At least the NFL still tries to make long-term decisions to grow the game. MLB is going in the other direction.
Max 3:07 PM
Yeah, that’s why Goodell is, I can’t believe I’m saying this, better. He’s making money, the owners love him, and the sport’s growing. If something fells football in the next 30 years, it’ll be concussions, not Rodger (I know, he’s definitely a bit to blame for that too). Manfred, on the other hand, has spent his tenure messing with the rules and exacerbating divisions and now is staring down the barrel of serious crisis
depstein1983 3:08 PM
Goodell and the NFL definitely have their own problems, but yeah, Manfred and Selig before him have been much more detrimental to the sport.
Max 3:09 PM
How’s the world different right now if Selig is in charge?
depstein1983 3:11 PM
Honestly, probably not much. Manfred is continuing the work that Selig started. The real question is how is the world different if Marvin Miller was still in charge of the Players Association?
Or, you know, someone competent.
Max 3:11 PM
You’re president of a labor thing right?
depstein1983 3:12 PM
Indeed I am. We call them unions, by the way.
Max 3:12 PM
I’ve just put you in charge of MLBPA. What’s your game plan?
(You might want to consider calling them ‘things’. Less politically charged. Just a tip)
depstein1983 3:15 PM
The MLBPA’s members are some of the most beloved spokespersons on the planet. They should be using Mike Trout and Max Scherzer in commercials and advertising to promote their message. They could have David Price and Shin-Soo Choo explaining why they had to pay minor leaguers stipends out of their own pockets because MLB refused to pay them a living wage, then refused to pay them at all. They could EASILY win the public to their side because the facts AND the talent are on their side. They just… don’t. It’s baffling.
I’ve got to wrap this up pretty soon.
Max 3:18 PM
Ok. Last question for newly-designated OTBB labor expert Dan Epstein. Rank the following from least to most likely:
1) players give in and we play
2) owners give in and we play
3) we don’t play in 2020 because of the pandemic
4) we don’t play in 2020 because of a labor dispute
5) there’s an agreement that makes everyone very happy and we play and it’s great
depstein1983 3:20 PM
I’m assuming #3 is because of the health and safety issues of the restart proposal, which we haven’t even touched on, but they deserve focus as well. Some players and team personnel just won’t feel safe coming back.
As for the rankings:
#1, #4, #3, #2, asteroid wipes out all life on the planet, #5
What can I say? I guess I’m an optimist.
Max 3:32 PM
Well, on that bright note, we’ll wrap. Thanks for the insight, Dan, let’s hope you’re very wrong!
depstein1983 3:32 PM
Thanks, Max. Great job, Sean.
